Hi. Complete newbie here, very impressed with the expertise on this site, it has been really helpful. Am hoping someone can advise on questions below and thanks in advance.
Looking to spend 250 to 300 for mobile broadband equipment for single storey house, external insulation, double glazing, prone to strong winds depending on the weather. Would prefer not to have to signup to long-term mobile broadband contracts and have a sim ready to go. Usual usage streaming, phones, work from home, gamer and would like to eventually install ring camera doorbell and security cameras etc. Have direct line of sight to cell tower which I believe is 3_MT0203 based on comreg viewer site. Other ids on tower include MH_4565 and MH054.
From what I can tell there is 5G on the tower so I should be able to get decent coverage? Unfortunately I don't have any 5G devices in the house to check that.
Given the external insulation is it best to go with an outdoor router? Did have a router in the attic with a previous provider but it gets extremely hot up there in Summer.
What will give me best performance and security for 250 to 300 E. I see a new MC7010 with T3000 on one of the sites for sale around that price? Is that the best option for that price or is there something else? If I have the same provider as the seller does it still need to be unlocked or can I just pop a sim in and go or is it locked to their ID and therefore won't work if he is already using another MC7010 router from the same provider. Assume T3000 is same as AX3000 pro, is secure and relatively future proof if 3 upgrade the tower?
Really appreciate any feedback and suggestions. Thanks again.
10/05/2023, 09:08 AM (This post was last modified: 10/05/2023, 10:13 AM by Seán.
Edit Reason: Additional info
)
As you mention having direct line of sight with the mast, it is very likely your indoor reception will be good unless your phone also struggles to pick up a signal indoors. If your phone is Android based, I suggest getting the App NetMonster or CellMapper to see what the signal strength (RSRP and SINR readings) is like in your house as indicated in the screenshot below:
If the RSRP number is within -100dBm (e.g. -90 is better than -100) and the SNR is above 10dB, an indoor router will likely work well, which is considerably cheaper and easier to set up. I suggest start by checking what speed you get on the Three and Vodafone network. I wouldn't worry about not getting 5G as none of the three operators are using the high capacity 3.6GHz 5G band on that mast. The signal strength should be similar for Eir, Three and Vodafone with that mast you mention having all three network operators, however the speed will vary depending on the network load of each provider and the bands they are operating.
I would need to see some signal readings (e.g. a screenshot from the NetMonster App) and peak time speed test results (e.g. 8pm to 10pm) to make some router suggestions.
Hi. I am a new user also but have availed of the tech info available here which to be fair is excellent.
It might be best if you start with Comreg siteviewer, direct it toward your location and hope there are not too many trees blocking your view between your house and the nearest mobile mast. Am looking for 5G myself and the very odd flash of 5G on my iphone i dont have it ( am 2.4KM from nearest mast but plenty of woodland in the way). For me Vodafone LTE works great, 30-40 Meg download and its consistent. I had Three business mobile broadband but they were rubbish in my opinion.
Your providor will usually give you a mobile broadband router FOC so if using an external antenna you may, depending on the model have to purchase andexternal SMA connector lead to connect your antenna to the back of the router.)I have the Poynting X-pol v3 myself with a Microtik Chateau 5G router and it is excellent. I bought hoping to get 5G at home but unless the router is a Km or 2 away with no trees beteween you and it, forget 5G and concentrate on LTE. Thats just my 2 cents and hope some part of it helps.
(10/05/2023, 09:08 AM)Seán Wrote: As you mention having direct line of sight with the mast, it is very likely your indoor reception will be good unless your phone also struggles to pick up a signal indoors. If your phone is Android based, I suggest getting the App NetMonster or CellMapper to see what the signal strength (RSRP and SINR readings) is like in your house as indicated in the screenshot below:
If the RSRP number is within -100dBm (e.g. -90 is better than -100) and the SNR is above 10dB, an indoor router will likely work well, which is considerably cheaper and easier to set up. I suggest start by checking what speed you get on the Three and Vodafone network. I wouldn't worry about not getting 5G as none of the three operators are using the high capacity 3.6GHz 5G band on that mast. The signal strength should be similar for Eir, Three and Vodafone with that mast you mention having all three network operators, however the speed will vary depending on the network load of each provider and the bands they are operating.
I would need to see some signal readings (e.g. a screenshot from the NetMonster App) and peak time speed test results (e.g. 8pm to 10pm) to make some router suggestions.
Thanks for that Sean, yes a cheaper easier option would be great if possible. I have posted some stats using the 3 sim in an old unlocked S8 handset earlier today. Readings vary I just looked at it now and the RSRP was -90 and the SNR was 20. The 107 speed reading was outside the house facing the tower. It's rural so some country hedges in places between my house and the tower, figure 2 metres max height and a laurel hedge at the bottom of my garden at 1.8 metres. I was planning to use a 3 sim in whatever router I get and don't have a vodafone sim in the house to test it. Have gomo, it's not 5g, speeds are a little higher but their plans are capped. Also have tesco and it's worse, again plans are capped. If you have a preference on app to use for the readings let me know. Will post updated readings later at peak time. Thanks again.
10/05/2023, 08:41 PM (This post was last modified: 10/05/2023, 08:47 PM by Seán.)
Going by the phone readings, the band 1 and 3 readings are very weak whereas your band 20 reading is quite good particularly if that's inside. The speeds are very good, particularly if you still get 50+ Mbps in the evenings. Most streaming such as YouTube require roughly 5Mbps per 1080p stream so you should have no problem with multi device streaming even without an antenna.
For the router I suggest going for either of the following to start with:
Both are capable of aggregating the three 4G bands (20 + 1 + 3) and should deliver similar speed to what your phone is getting. The Chateau LTE12 is a much more capable router particularly for tweaking, with 5 Ethernet ports and full size SMA antenna connectors. Both routers are literally "plug and play" with a Three SIM, i.e. you should be able to just insert the SIM, power on the router and connect to its Wi-Fi and it'll be online within a minute. From what I recall, the MikroTik's Wi-Fi router needs a Wi-Fi password to be set (Wireless menu -> Security Profiles -> default -> WPA2 Preshared Key).
See how you get on with the just the router. On a dry day you can try testing it outside on the side facing the mast and run a few speed tests to see what additional speed you can achieve, i.e. whether it is worth getting an outdoor antenna.
Thanks Sean. Here's the stats for tonight. The speed drops quite a bit but it's never been to the point where we can't work with it. Unless you suggest otherwise based on these I'll check out the routers you mentioned. Just one Q on that my sim is 5G and I am assuming that they will continue to upgrade the towers so I'd like to future proof. That being the case I am guessing that the MikroTik referenced below is the preferred option? Thanks again.
10/05/2023, 11:15 PM (This post was last modified: 11/05/2023, 09:34 AM by Seán.
Edit Reason: Additional info
)
The main issue with 5G routers (not just MikroTik) is with the complexity of adding an external antenna if you decide to get one. With most 4G routers including the above two, it is simply a matter of attaching the pair of leads to the router. With 5G routers, they generally require 4 or more antennas, even in 4G mode and usually 6 antennas for 5G. For example, the Chateau LTE12 (and higher end LTE18 ax model) needs a MIMO antenna with just two leads to aggregate those three bands. The Chateau 5G requires 4 antennas, internal rewiring and a pair of additional U.fl of SMA pigtails to aggregate those same three bands as its 5G modem uses two antenna ports for 2 bands and two separate ports to aggregate the third band, at least with the Three mast I'm connected to. Many other 5G routers have no external antenna ports, requiring disassembly and installing multiple U.fl to SMA pigtails just to attach external antennas, such as the Huawei CPE 2 5G and later models.
Basically I would start off with a good 4G router and if Three eventually installs a high capacity 3.6GHz 5G cell before Fibre reaches your area, there will likely be much cheaper and more capable 5G router options. For example, Three UK recently switched to the Zyxel NR5103E for its 5G router, which needs just 4 antennas for 5G and also provides 4 antenna ports, unlike most other 5G routers. While an outdoor 5G router is another option (like in your first post), these use omni-directional antennas which are less sensitive than a dedicated directional antenna, particularly if trying to avoid interference from masts in other directions.
If you would like one of the most capable 4G routers, I suggest going with the following MikroTik Chateau LTE18 ax, which is also Wi-Fi 6 capable and has a 2.5Gb Ethernet port. Whenever Three starts using their band 7 spectrum, it will likely be for additional 4G bandwidth and this router is capable of aggregating up to 5 bands. Its 2.5Gb Ethernet port would enable you to continue using the router for FTTH whenever it reaches your area or as the indoor Wi-Fi router to connect an outdoor 5G router such if Three adds a high capacity 3.6GHz 5G cell the mast.
Going by your peak time signal readings, it looks like your mast is fairly quiet particularly with RSRQ hitting -7dB. This RSRQ reading is a combination of network load, signal quality and interference, varying from -3dBm with a completely idle and clean signal to -12dBm with a full network load and clean signal and down to -20dB at the edge of reception, i.e. saturated with noise/interference. It's worth checking your speed outside also at peak time. If the speed is similar to the indoor reading, then the bottleneck is likely with the backhaul capacity to the mast.
11/05/2023, 04:30 PM (This post was last modified: 11/05/2023, 05:12 PM by Feather23.)
(10/05/2023, 12:49 PM)SeanF Wrote: Hi. I am a new user also but have availed of the tech info available here which to be fair is excellent.
It might be best if you start with Comreg siteviewer, direct it toward your location and hope there are not too many trees blocking your view between your house and the nearest mobile mast. Am looking for 5G myself and the very odd flash of 5G on my iphone i dont have it ( am 2.4KM from nearest mast but plenty of woodland in the way). For me Vodafone LTE works great, 30-40 Meg download and its consistent. I had Three business mobile broadband but they were rubbish in my opinion.
Your providor will usually give you a mobile broadband router FOC so if using an external antenna you may, depending on the model have to purchase andexternal SMA connector lead to connect your antenna to the back of the router.)I have the Poynting X-pol v3 myself with a Microtik Chateau 5G router and it is excellent. I bought hoping to get 5G at home but unless the router is a Km or 2 away with no trees beteween you and it, forget 5G and concentrate on LTE. Thats just my 2 cents and hope some part of it helps.
Thanks really appreciate that, very helpful as NBI won't be here until late 2025 if we are lucky. I see that you have a Mikrotik and it works well for you I had vodafone back in the dongle days and you are right it was consistent, never had any problems with it. They don't have 5G here and say I would get 60 max with their 4G modem on their unlimited MB data plan. I guess if 3 doesn't work out I might look at them. Thanks again.
(10/05/2023, 11:15 PM)Seán Wrote: The main issue with 5G routers (not just MikroTik) is with the complexity of adding an external antenna if you decide to get one. With most 4G routers including the above two, it is simply a matter of attaching the pair of leads to the router. With 5G routers, they generally require 4 or more antennas, even in 4G mode and usually 6 antennas for 5G. For example, the Chateau LTE12 (and higher end LTE18 ax model) needs a MIMO antenna with just two leads to aggregate those three bands. The Chateau 5G requires 4 antennas, internal rewiring and a pair of additional U.fl of SMA pigtails to aggregate those same three bands as its 5G modem uses two antenna ports for 2 bands and two separate ports to aggregate the third band, at least with the Three mast I'm connected to. Many other 5G routers have no external antenna ports, requiring disassembly and installing multiple U.fl to SMA pigtails just to attach external antennas, such as the Huawei CPE 2 5G and later models.
Basically I would start off with a good 4G router and if Three eventually installs a high capacity 3.6GHz 5G cell before Fibre reaches your area, there will likely be much cheaper and more capable 5G router options. For example, Three UK recently switched to the Zyxel NR5103E for its 5G router, which needs just 4 antennas for 5G and also provides 4 antenna ports, unlike most other 5G routers. While an outdoor 5G router is another option (like in your first post), these use omni-directional antennas which are less sensitive than a dedicated directional antenna, particularly if trying to avoid interference from masts in other directions.
If you would like one of the most capable 4G routers, I suggest going with the following MikroTik Chateau LTE18 ax, which is also Wi-Fi 6 capable and has a 2.5Gb Ethernet port. Whenever Three starts using their band 7 spectrum, it will likely be for additional 4G bandwidth and this router is capable of aggregating up to 5 bands. Its 2.5Gb Ethernet port would enable you to continue using the router for FTTH whenever it reaches your area or as the indoor Wi-Fi router to connect an outdoor 5G router such if Three adds a high capacity 3.6GHz 5G cell the mast.
Going by your peak time signal readings, it looks like your mast is fairly quiet particularly with RSRQ hitting -7dB. This RSRQ reading is a combination of network load, signal quality and interference, varying from -3dBm with a completely idle and clean signal to -12dBm with a full network load and clean signal and down to -20dB at the edge of reception, i.e. saturated with noise/interference. It's worth checking your speed outside also at peak time. If the speed is similar to the indoor reading, then the bottleneck is likely with the backhaul capacity to the mast.
(10/05/2023, 11:15 PM)Seán Wrote: The main issue with 5G routers (not just MikroTik) is with the complexity of adding an external antenna if you decide to get one. With most 4G routers including the above two, it is simply a matter of attaching the pair of leads to the router. With 5G routers, they generally require 4 or more antennas, even in 4G mode and usually 6 antennas for 5G. For example, the Chateau LTE12 (and higher end LTE18 ax model) needs a MIMO antenna with just two leads to aggregate those three bands. The Chateau 5G requires 4 antennas, internal rewiring and a pair of additional U.fl of SMA pigtails to aggregate those same three bands as its 5G modem uses two antenna ports for 2 bands and two separate ports to aggregate the third band, at least with the Three mast I'm connected to. Many other 5G routers have no external antenna ports, requiring disassembly and installing multiple U.fl to SMA pigtails just to attach external antennas, such as the Huawei CPE 2 5G and later models.
Basically I would start off with a good 4G router and if Three eventually installs a high capacity 3.6GHz 5G cell before Fibre reaches your area, there will likely be much cheaper and more capable 5G router options. For example, Three UK recently switched to the Zyxel NR5103E for its 5G router, which needs just 4 antennas for 5G and also provides 4 antenna ports, unlike most other 5G routers. While an outdoor 5G router is another option (like in your first post), these use omni-directional antennas which are less sensitive than a dedicated directional antenna, particularly if trying to avoid interference from masts in other directions.
If you would like one of the most capable 4G routers, I suggest going with the following MikroTik Chateau LTE18 ax, which is also Wi-Fi 6 capable and has a 2.5Gb Ethernet port. Whenever Three starts using their band 7 spectrum, it will likely be for additional 4G bandwidth and this router is capable of aggregating up to 5 bands. Its 2.5Gb Ethernet port would enable you to continue using the router for FTTH whenever it reaches your area or as the indoor Wi-Fi router to connect an outdoor 5G router such if Three adds a high capacity 3.6GHz 5G cell the mast.
Going by your peak time signal readings, it looks like your mast is fairly quiet particularly with RSRQ hitting -7dB. This RSRQ reading is a combination of network load, signal quality and interference, varying from -3dBm with a completely idle and clean signal to -12dBm with a full network load and clean signal and down to -20dB at the edge of reception, i.e. saturated with noise/interference. It's worth checking your speed outside also at peak time. If the speed is similar to the indoor reading, then the bottleneck is likely with the backhaul capacity to the mast.
Thanks for that explanation and link Sean, it sounds like the Chateau lte 18 ax is the way to go for my needs now and into the future. It's a micro sim so I'll have to get an adapter as the 3 sim is a nano sim. I assume that won't be an issue. Do you think I should also buy the MIMO antenna to combine and maximise speed or wait and see how it is without? If yes, which would work best with the lte 18? Thanks again.
For the Micro SIM adapter, you may already have particularly if you have any SIM less than 3 years old. Most SIM cards are supplied as a 3-piece snap-together set where you pop out the Nano or Micro size depending on the size SIM you need, as shown below. These can snap together again, so if you still have the original SIM segments, you can snap the Nano SIM into the Micro segment to fit the MikroTik router:
If you would like to get the antenna at the same time as the router to save on shipping, I reckon the following should be adequate. As you are roughly 1km from the mast, you mainly want to get the antenna as high up as possible to overlook the obstacles rather than a highly directional antenna.
You just need an outdoor wall mount (same as for a TV antenna or satellite dish) to mount the antenna and two 8mm drill holes (if I recall right) to feed the two leads indoors.
If you can stretch your budget, the following Poynting XPOL-2-5G antenna has a higher gain and also covers the 3.6GHz 5G band. This one comes with 5m of leads, so you may need to choose the 10m option (additional €25) to mount the antenna high up with the router on the ground floor:
(11/05/2023, 06:17 PM)Seán Wrote: For the Micro SIM adapter, you may already have particularly if you have any SIM less than 3 years old. Most SIM cards are supplied as a 3-piece snap-together set where you pop out the Nano or Micro size depending on the size SIM you need, as shown below. These can snap together again, so if you still have the original SIM segments, you can snap the Nano SIM into the Micro segment to fit the MikroTik router:
If you would like to get the antenna at the same time as the router to save on shipping, I reckon the following should be adequate. As you are roughly 1km from the mast, you mainly want to get the antenna as high up as possible to overlook the obstacles rather than a highly directional antenna.
You just need an outdoor wall mount (same as for a TV antenna or satellite dish) to mount the antenna and two 8mm drill holes (if I recall right) to feed the two leads indoors.
If you can stretch your budget, the following Poynting XPOL-2-5G antenna has a higher gain and also covers the 3.6GHz 5G band. This one comes with 5m of leads, so you may need to choose the 10m option (additional €25) to mount the antenna high up with the router on the ground floor:
Thanks Sean. I already have a pole on the chimney with a direct view of the tower 1.1 K away and access to the attic for cables. Looks like a spend of 600 to 700 E for consistency, combining bands and future proofing which still works out less than a contract with less optimal equipment. I plan to order the equipment this weekend. This really is an amazing forum, I came across a posting on EM12-G and LHGG LTE from March this year. All of it makes me realise that you really need to know what you are doing to maximise your set up for spend. If I need it do you have any recommendations on qualified installers or companies that you could PM me? Thanks so much to you and all the posters in the forum.
12/05/2023, 08:05 PM (This post was last modified: 12/05/2023, 08:06 PM by Seán.)
The antenna installation can be done by any reputable TV aerial or satellite dish installer as the installation is very similar including the tools for mounting, drilling holes and securing the leads in place. The antenna just needs to be aimed roughly at the mast as the panel antennas will tolerate being 10 to 20 degrees out with insignificant effect on the signal.
One thing to note - Tell them not to cut or extend the coaxial cables as the leads have a 50 Ohm impedance. They will unlikely have the tools to crimp new SMA connectors and attempting to use 75 Ohm connectors (F Plugs, etc.) would cause impedance matching issues. I helped troubleshoot an antenna issue with a cousin only to find they tried extending their leads using satellite cable, F-Plugs and F-Plug to SMA adapters which are for 75 Ohm cable.
I would only recommend going for an outdoor router such as the MikroTik's LHG series if you are competent with heights such as going up the ladder to perform a factory reset, change the SIM card (which would be in the outdoor unit), etc. whereas with an antenna, everything is accessible on the indoor router.
(10/05/2023, 11:15 PM)Seán Wrote: The main issue with 5G routers (not just MikroTik) is with the complexity of adding an external antenna if you decide to get one. With most 4G routers including the above two, it is simply a matter of attaching the pair of leads to the router. With 5G routers, they generally require 4 or more antennas, even in 4G mode and usually 6 antennas for 5G. For example, the Chateau LTE12 (and higher end LTE18 ax model) needs a MIMO antenna with just two leads to aggregate those three bands. The Chateau 5G requires 4 antennas, internal rewiring and a pair of additional U.fl of SMA pigtails to aggregate those same three bands as its 5G modem uses two antenna ports for 2 bands and two separate ports to aggregate the third band, at least with the Three mast I'm connected to. Many other 5G routers have no external antenna ports, requiring disassembly and installing multiple U.fl to SMA pigtails just to attach external antennas, such as the Huawei CPE 2 5G and later models.
Basically I would start off with a good 4G router and if Three eventually installs a high capacity 3.6GHz 5G cell before Fibre reaches your area, there will likely be much cheaper and more capable 5G router options. For example, Three UK recently switched to the Zyxel NR5103E for its 5G router, which needs just 4 antennas for 5G and also provides 4 antenna ports, unlike most other 5G routers. While an outdoor 5G router is another option (like in your first post), these use omni-directional antennas which are less sensitive than a dedicated directional antenna, particularly if trying to avoid interference from masts in other directions.
If you would like one of the most capable 4G routers, I suggest going with the following MikroTik Chateau LTE18 ax, which is also Wi-Fi 6 capable and has a 2.5Gb Ethernet port. Whenever Three starts using their band 7 spectrum, it will likely be for additional 4G bandwidth and this router is capable of aggregating up to 5 bands. Its 2.5Gb Ethernet port would enable you to continue using the router for FTTH whenever it reaches your area or as the indoor Wi-Fi router to connect an outdoor 5G router such if Three adds a high capacity 3.6GHz 5G cell the mast.
Going by your peak time signal readings, it looks like your mast is fairly quiet particularly with RSRQ hitting -7dB. This RSRQ reading is a combination of network load, signal quality and interference, varying from -3dBm with a completely idle and clean signal to -12dBm with a full network load and clean signal and down to -20dB at the edge of reception, i.e. saturated with noise/interference. It's worth checking your speed outside also at peak time. If the speed is similar to the indoor reading, then the bottleneck is likely with the backhaul capacity to the mast.
I just registered, because I'm currently in the same boat as the thread starter was, and found this post particularly useful, and great for a newbie like me. So thanks.
I'm in Denmark, and it turns out that Three is heavily investing in upgrading their networks to 5G, and will complete the upgrade no later than early 2024 (including band n78). I cancelled my pending order of the LTE18 ax, because I'm seriously in doubt what to do. In your opinion, apart from the cumbersome band splits making so many antennas necessary - is there something that the Chateau 5G ax is missing compared to other 5G modems/routers? Will it work just as well for 4G as the LTE18 ax, when it comes to sensitivity, since 5G is not currently available here just yet?
