Fibocom FM350-GL module compatibility with MikroTik Chateau 5G

[Eagle]

Legend , I'll try get that now

[Meritez]

Although it may not support N3:
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/threads...ost-285046

[Eagle]

I hope it's a three one I end up getting , had it shipped to my relatives and then they can video call me with what it is. I really need the N3 as that would account for the majority of the upload speed. And since the cex store is in UK I'm hoping it is the E version. I think thats the one that has n3?

Also wondering for the 4 TS9 ports, would something like this work by just plugging in my two  poynting LPDA-92's ? 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Splitter-Compat...C88&sr=8-9 

Or do I need 4 antennas?

---

I also noticed here, I'm hoping the top "5G NR" is related to standalone 5G and not NSA.  It does say 4x4 MIMO n3 down the bottom under UL CA.  does that mean it does support it for NSA?

https://imgur.com/a/oj8GwWh

[Seán]

I reckon the Zyxel datasheet has the wrong band selection shown for the NR5301 and NR5103 models, especially being EMEA designated where 5G bands n2 and n5 are not in use. The 4G list is also missing band 20, again a band in use by nearly every mobile operator throughout Europe. Based on the 4x4 MIMO bands being the same across all three models, which includes 4G band 32 also missing in the FDD 4G list, these three very likely have the same 5G modem. These 5G 4x4 MIMO cover both SA and NSA on the download, whereas the 2x2 MIMO upload is possibly 5G SA only.

The main differences between these three models appear to be the Wi-Fi and Ethernet port configuration. The NR5301 has 4x4 MIMO Wi-Fi 6 and 1 x 2.5Gb + 1 x 1Gb Ethernet ports. The NR5103 has 4x4 MIMO Wi-Fi 6 and 2 x 2.5Gb Ethernet ports. The NR53103E has 2x2 MIMO Wi-Fi 6 and 2 x 2.5Gb Ethernet ports.

I would avoid using coaxial splitters. Besides forcing the ports to operate in 2x2 MIMO and adding at least 6dB signal loss, a transmitting port will backfeed into the other port the splitter attaches to, which may cause problems. You can try getting something like the Poynting XPOL-2-5G for the 3rd and 4th ports, then work out which combination of ports give the best speeds, e.g. try the LPDAs in the first 2 ports, run some speed tests, then repeat swapped around, ports 1 + 4 swapped, etc.

[Eagle]

Sounds good, that's a bit more promising as it does look like copy pasted or something in the spec sheet. Hopefully B20 and N3 are supported and it connects from here without any issues. I did another speed test today with the A22 and got 210 mbps down and 84 Mbps upload on N3 so that is nice.

The features included in the router also seem to be pretty good in terms of reading signal and selecting bands so that is something.
I presume it's this one here https://www.novatel.ie/wifi-lte-4g-5g-ex...tenna-main

I may need to get TS9 adapters again, as I think I only have two , which ones would you recommend / I could get different ones if they'd give less cable loss like a pack of 4 or something?

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/185391793139?has...R9D4y8b9YA

Do you think I should try making an outdoor enclosure for the zyxel NR5103 when it arrives with the shorter cable option or do you think it'd pick up fringe N78 with that XPOL antenna over a 10 meter cable?

Reading on phone when higher up is about -114 RSRP on N78 at best. -94 or so on N3. Speeds with that anywhere from 200-300 down and about 40 up with N78 on A22.

[Seán]

As TS9 ports are delicate, I suggest going for pigtails with straight TS9 connectors rather than with right-angle connectors. This way if any of the leads get tugged, the connectors will more likely pull out than cause damage. The following is an example with straight TS9 connectors:

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08LPBVP75

An enclosure with shorter leads would definitely help with the n78 band if you're still able to get it with the Samsung A22 there. You can use a Gigabit capable PoE injector and splitter to provide power over the Ethernet run (example links in this post). Going by Poynting's technical specifications on its HDF-195 coaxial cables and extensions, they have 0.565dB/m loss at 1.8GHz and 0.788dB/m loss at 3GHz, so a 5m shorter run would improve the n3 band by about 3dB and the n78 band by about 4dB, which may significantly improve the upload speed. It would also let you route the Ethernet cable more neatly indoors as that can be much longer. The main catch is losing the Wi-Fi 6 capability of the router with it being outdoors, so you'll need another Wi-Fi access point or mesh kit for indoor Wi-Fi.

Hopefully it works out for you. I suggest waiting until you get it before ordering the antenna or enclosure bits just to be sure it functions properly with Three on n3 / n78, e.g. with a test run set up outside temporarily on a dry day.

[Eagle]

Ordered them so I'll have 4. I have those right angled connectors at the moment so may as well just get 4 straight ones. And yeah it's a better idea holding off till I see if it works first. 
There is also a no cable option on novatel , I wonder if I contacted them maybe they'd shorten the cable to 1 meter or something like that so I could hook the antennas up right beside the enclosure or measure what distance I'd need. That should also help signal abit more too. Would also mean I could remove the extra 5m extension cables I'm currently using with the LPDA-92s to get them all the way into the house.

[Seán]

It would be worth asking as they have a page for custom cable lengths and a choice of terminations, such as N and SMA. The problem with the page is the minimum length it lets one choose is 5m:
https://www.novatel.ie/web240-lsnh-lmr-a...coax-cable

This cable has lower loss at about 3dB over 5m. If they are able to do shorter custom lengths, I suggest choosing 2m as the absolute minimum (about 1.2dB loss), particularly to provide enough cable slack to run into underneath the enclosure and provide a rain drip loop, etc. If you plan mounting the enclosure on a separate pole, in a shed, etc. you'll probably need the 5m run.

While they also have higher end LMR400 cable, it requires N connector termination on both ends, so while it would be just 1.7dB loss over 5m, the N to SMA adaptors could end up adding more loss than what the thicker cable gains, not to mention the additional cost.

[Eagle]

Here's the answer I got back, from my understanding they would do a shorter cable? also what are these EPNT antenna/routers and would they be of any use I wonder? I couldn't understand the purpose of it

"Thank you for contacting Novatel, and for your enquiry.

You can buy the XPOL-2-5G-02 version of the Poynting XPOL-2-5G and, and create yourself a custom length coax cable, or you can also order from us.

Take note, that the above mentioned model can only take an N-Type Male cable. So you will need an N-Type Male / SMA Male coax cable, plus TS9 adapters for your Router/Modem.

With that said above, maybe the EPNT Series might also interest you? It's a Router/Modem Outdoor Enclosure + 4G/5G & WiFi Antenna All-in-one.

Further Info About the EPNT Model Series (https://www.novatel.ie/tag/epnt-series):

​
1. EPNT-1: Omndirectional Antenna (5G/LTE & WI-FI) + Router/Modem Enclosure
2. EPNT-2: Unidirectional Antenna (5G/LTE & WI-FI) + Router/Modem Enclosure
3. EPNT-4: Omnidirectional Antenna (5G/LTE & WI-FI) + Router/Modem Enclosure


Product Link:

XPOL-2-5G, Choose the XPOL-2-5G-02 Option When Adding to Cart:
https://www.novatel.ie/wifi-lte-4g-5g-ex...tenna-main"

[Seán]

The EPNT antenna has an enclosure for either the PCB (internal mainboard) or placing a small router inside (e.g. portable type). This just requires short pigtail leads to run from the PCB / router to the SMA sockets inside the antenna enclosure. An example can be seen on their EPNT-2 page:

https://www.novatel.ie/epnt-2-4g-5g-wifi...-enclosure

The NR5103 itself will be too big to fit inside, however, there is the possibility that the internal circuit board may be compact enough. Going by the EPNT-2 specs, it can hold a router / PCB of up to 185 x 145 x 45 mm.

One main advantage with the EPNT-2 is that it's 4x4 MIMO (covers H/V and +/-45 degrees), so would do away with needing any other antenna if the router PCB is compact enough to fit inside.

[Eagle]

I got an email back saying they also said it should work I just need to find out how big the PCB in the Zyxel NR5103 would be. Then the issue is finding out what kind of pigtail connectors I'd need or are they already with the EPNT-2?  

This is what I get atm on band 1 with a 12 meter ish run, it's a 7m cable plus a 5m extension cable I got from novatel a year or two ago. 
I wonder by how much the signal would improve without needing to run a length of cable this far? I definitely think it'll be required for N78 as it doesn't pick up on Chateau 5G at all that I could see at least, it doesn't periodically show up like N3 does. But holding A22 up at same level as antenna does pick up N78.



This is 4CA midday

[Eagle]

Another reply I got back asking about comparisons from novatel:

Me: "You think the LPDA setup I have despite there being a 12 meter run of cable is better than hooking up the router directly into the EPNT-2?"

Response:
Not really, I was actually comparing the LPDA with the XPOL-2-5G in my previous response.

For a 4x4 MIMO for high data 5G throughput, then I recommend the EPNT-4. Similar to EPNT-2 but has 4x4 MIMO support. If you have the resource, then I recommend this model to get rid signal loss due to long cable run.

Alternatively, we also have the XPOL-24, a 4x4 MIMO for 5G/4G. However, this model is similar XPOL-2-5G, which has no router enclosure feature.

Links:

- XPOL-24: https://www.novatel.ie/poynting-xpol-24-...el-antenna
- EPNT-4 (not up on our site yet, but you can order): https://poynting.tech/antennas/epnt-4/

Me: "What would be the best bet antenna wise for the other two ports , and probably go with a 2 meter cable on the new antenna if none of the EPNT ones are of any use?"

Response:
"The below could be a viable option, but Im not sure how to span or orient the two different antenna models. I will ask the manufacturer for technical advise, and then will get back to you once I have the answer.

- Config A: 2x LPDA92 in 45deg angle double antenna configuration, PLUS 1x XPOL-2-5G
- Config B: 2x LPDA92 in 45deg angle double antenna configuration, PLUS EPNT-2

Or simply get the EPNT-4, if you need the router enclosure feature. And, will repeater myself again, the EPNT-4 is a router + 4x4 antenna all-in-one."

I'm back with awesome news!

These configuration will work:

- Config A: 2x LPDA92 in 45deg angle double antenna configuration, PLUS 1x XPOL-2-5G
- Config B: 2x LPDA92 in 45deg angle double antenna configuration, PLUS EPNT-2

Make sure you span the two antenna models in either a Vertical or Horizontal position, 60cm away from the other. That's it!

[Seán]

I didn't realise Three started doing CA between bands 20 and 28 like Eir does. There's no band 28 on Three around my area, so haven't tested the CA capabilities out & about apart from what my ageing Samsung A51 5G can do. I look forward to upgrading it whenever I can get hold of an S21 series for around €400.

The Poynting EPNT-2 doesn't come with any pigtails going by the datasheet. You would also need to find out what type of antenna ports are on the PCB to determine whether to get MHF4 or U.fl pigtails. The EPNT-2 has 4 x SMA connectors, so the SMA end would need to be female to screw on. From what I can tell from the datasheet, the base of the EPNT-2 has 4 x cable gland openings, so with matching cable glands (possibly 20mm), you can technically convert this into a regular 4x4 MIMO antenna by running 4 x coaxial leads with SMA ends into it. Obviously this defeats the purpose of the enclosure compartment, but would be a workaround if the router PCB doesn't fit inside and need to place it in a larger weatherproof enclosure.

Your LPDA antennas have -2 to +2dB gain across the 3.6GHz band going by the data sheet, whereas the EPNT-2 has 7 to 11dB, i.e. 9dB better on band n78. Removing the 12m cable potentially adds another 9dB (assuming HDF-195), so possibly up to 18dB extra gain on band n78. The EPNT2 however has about 4dB less gain on bands 1 and 3, so while the signal may be a few dB better due to eliminating the 12m coaxial run, the SINR may be worse due to the EPNT2 having a wider acceptance angle, i.e. not as highly directional. Then again, I wouldn't worry too much here especially with how well the A22 phone performed, being omni-directional.

That's great technical feedback from Novatel.

[Eagle]

I got confirmation that's it's the UK Three version (NR5103E) ? , should I ask my relative to boot it up first to make sure it has the B10 firmware?

[Meritez]

I got confirmation that's it's the UK Three version (NR5103E) ?  , should I ask my relative to boot it up first to make sure it has the B10 firmware?

As soon as you receive it, you will be able to use the serial number to ask Zyxel for the firmware file.
If you have any issues with that, drop me a direct message and I'll speak to my account manager.

[Eagle]

Thanks will do @meritez 

First time ever seeing N78 showing up on the Chateau 5G when I did some antenna adjusting. Of course it won't register because of my distance issue just tries to connect in a loop. This is with the 12m cable run as well. One thing I notice with 5G NR is the initial signal is really poor but if I refresh a page/download anything the signal will go from example on N3  -116 RSRP idle , but when I do anything like a download it'll drop all the way down to -94 RSRP that's the best I've seen it. It's like downloading /uploading makes the mast increase power temporarily. It happens on Band 1 as well , it'll idle around -101 but when I start downloading it'll drop to -96 or -97 RSRP.  Maybe it's something to do with the 45 degree mounting.

[Seán]

Based on the -124dB that you managed to get to appear briefly on band n78, this at least gives a rough guide as to what you may be able to achieve with the Poynting EPNT-2.  The EPNT-2 with the router PCB enclosed (if possible) would potentially bring this to -106dBm.  With 5m of WEB240 coaxial leads to house the router in a separate enclosure, around -109dBm.  With the lower bands, the RSRP would be in the low to mid -90s.   

I like the -32768 dB SINR

[Eagle]

Still waiting on the router to get delivered to relative at least I know its gonna support N3 now. The lowest I saw the N78 when it briefly connected was like -121 RSRP so if I managed to get it under that to -106 ish that'd be a huge speed improvement.  And yeah the SINR is always that same number was wondering why it does that with this router

The 4 SMA-TS9 pigtails are on the way due to come monday so I should have those, I will probably need some other smaller pigtails for that router when it comes. Do you think heat dissipation would be a problem ?  From what I read the inside of the Zyxel is tall and has tall antenna array/pcb for the antennas and the main pcb is hopefully on the bottom. So I should be able to disconnect the antenna array provided it doesn't affect functionality somehow.

[Seán]

I don't think heat dissipation would be an issue, particularly as these would need to be capable of operating in hot climates such as Spain. Many people place their router in the window to try improving the signal where it gets direct sunlight exposure also, not to mention the heat build-up if they close the curtains. At least with the antenna enclosure, there is plenty of surface area for heat dissipation of its interior space and no risk of it getting covered by curtains.

The main thing to check with the antenna PCBs is that there is no active circuitry on them, i.e. there should be nothing more than one or more pigtail coaxial leads leading to its internal PCB antennas. If there are any other wires, ribbon cables, etc. to the PCB or the PCB attaches with an edge connector with metal pins, then it contains active circuitry.

[Eagle]

That's good then ,I'll send pictures of the interior whenever I get to modding it , will test if it'll connect to N3/N78 first of all. TS9 pigtails came today so I have 4 of those now. Would there be any other solution other than EPNT-2 that you think would work better or do you think that's the best bet of maxmizing the 4G+5G connectivity here. I'll recoup the cost of router by selling the Mikrotik Chateau 5G probably if this Zyxel NR5103E works like I hope it does. I hope it has cell locking or sector locking

On a sidenote I noticed vodafone have some 5G purple markings on the Nperf coverage map around Dunlewy. Would be interesting to test that. I tried Eir sim again but they still only have B20+B28 which gives me around 100 Mbps and 25 up. No sign of any B3/B1 or 5G. They also added 5G on the mast near Dore school but no way of seeing there anyway.