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Optimal Antenna to complete 4X4 MIMO setup Chateau 5G
Was just wondering what would the absolute best antenna setup I could do here, the 2100 Mhz antennas work exceptionally well on B1, aggregating the two band 1 cells always gets 100-160 ish Mbps. 

I'm certain there is something wrong with the LPDA 92s , the SINR and RSRP is much much better on the 2100 Mhz antennas when they're the primary antenna port... its strange the LPDA's aren't as affected on lower bands , the signal deterioration is more apparent with the higher bands, maybe the water ingress affects the higher bands in terms of degradation more than lower frequencies? just speculating was wondering what you'd think.

The only thing is they are noticeably weaker on B3, and not really any good at all on lower bands. 

What would be an optimal setup of antennas I could get to maximise/futureproof them? Basically wondering what's the best thing you could get  Big Grin 

I noticed some weird things like aggregating the 515 EARFCN B1 cell with B3 or setting it as the primary cell with other bands causes really poor throughput, 30 ish mbps. whereas on its own it'll pull 100 combined with the other B1 cell... doesn't seem to work well with other bands for some reason... but making the 100 EARFCN B1 cell primary , that issue is non existent so I stick with that one and it tends to be almost empty with -6 or -7 RSRQ most of the time and a 20+ SINR Tongue 

Another strange thing that still occurs is the instant connection drop upon certain band combos , same issue I described in the past, seems like certain band combinations / specific order will end up failing to hold after 10 seconds and try another combo.

I actually noticed the 15 Mhz B3 cell has disappeared , Kinda praying they add N3 there now instead... I wonder what they're doing to it ? Been hoping for that for a while now. 

Edit: It actually showed up for a split second in the CA section , as cell ID 1, so assumed they've already replaced it but not been able to get it to show myself .. wonder can I lock it somehow?

And Is it possible to set N3 as the primary band I wonder?
So far I haven't come across anything wideband that outperforms the LPDA 92s. The ISKRA-58s I currently use would be the next best I've come across, which EuroDK has:

As with TV antennas, the only way to get a higher gain is to either go for a much larger antenna or a narrower band range. So the only option other than finding a massive 2m+ antenna would be to get two 1710-2700MHz antennas to give full 4x4 MIMO across bands 1 and 3. The catch is that you'll lose out on band 20 and 28, so the overall speed could be worse if 4x4 MIMO does not offer much additional capacity on bands 1 and 3.

I suggest waiting to see what happens with the B3 cell to see if it appears as a 5G cell. If it does and you have a 5G plan, your router should be able to connect to it. As N3 uses FDD, it should have a much longer range than the n78 cell.

When the router establishes a 5G connection in NSA mode, it aggregates it with the existing 4G connection for both download and upload. So technically it works alongside the primary 4G band for additional download and upload capacity.
Hmm , so it would appear that N3 refuses to aggregate with any band combination , the carrier aggregation problem disconnecting after 10 seconds is actually caused by having the N3 band enabled, it must try to connect but fail every time. When I just enable N78 on its own, the disconnection issue will stop , same with any other NR band I select, but whenever N3 is enabled it causes this loop of bands trying to aggregate, failing, and some other combo coming back , but they all continue to re aggregate every 10 seconds or so. unchecking 5G also stops the issue.

Managed to catch  2 screenshots  of it briefly connecting , I assume the cell is operational then, just not connecting to anything? I tried the phone last night out the road as well , it constantly disconnected and reconnected similar to the N78 problem I had,  but it just keeps changing CA combos. Wonder why this is happening.

Another annoying issue is the fact the chateau connects to the worse sector cells alot of the time on the CA bands , instead of the ones facing my direction, unlike the LTE 12 which used to aggregate them correctly.

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I wonder if Three has that refarmed n3 cell configured correctly, especially with it connecting and disconnecting in a loop on your phone. I think it's an issue worth raising with Three as you can mention that it started happening recently and that your phone will only stay connected when you switch to 4G only mode on your phone.

You can try selecting 5G only on the router, which technically force it into 5G SA mode. However, from what I'm aware of, the Irish network operators only support 5G NSA mode at present, which is where it depends on an existing 4G connection for all the control signalling.

From the command line, I suggest monitoring the cell readings as this may give a clue as to why its picking undesired sectors:
/interface lte cell-monitor 0

It would be also interesting to see if any other 5G cells appear in the cell monitor list with the n3 5G band enabled.

You can lock sectors for CA using the cell locking command. If you already use the cell lock command to lock the primary cell, unfortunately, this will lose control over which it uses for the primary. For example, if you wish to lock it to the CA cells from the first screenshot of this post, you would type:
/interface lte at-chat lte1 input="at+qnwlock=\"common/4g\",4,100,1,1700,1,525,1,9360,467"

To remove the cell lock:
/interface lte at-chat lte1 input="at+qnwlock=\"common/4g\",0"
Raised it with Three hopefully they do something about it, I wasn't aware I could cell lock the CA bands , that'd be really useful. I tried the command it didnt seem to work with the 4 bands but when I selected just band 3 and 1 via the router settings, it seemed to stick to phy cellid 1 which is what I'd want.

Strangely enough, monitoring the cells,  even tho cell ID 1 is best, they seem to keep swapping around anyway while trying to do it with the 4 bands. 

I tend to use the B1 (100) cell as it's the best for latency / download speed. Aggregating with B3 with these broken antennas doesn't do a whole lot. B1 + B1 combo was what worked best for me.
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Couldn't get any NR cells to appear sadly with cell monitor. Wish the N3 cell would work Big Grin  , hopefully it can do something like B1 + B1 + N3   or B1+B1+B3+N3 when it does.
I borrowed my Dad's GoMo SIM Friday evening.  From testing it through to early Saturday morning, I made some interesting observations.

Eir appears to have upgraded or added a mast that my router picked up across Donegal Bay.  Not only were the speeds much faster than my previous tests with an Eir SIM, but a lot more consistent.  Although I rather avoid Eir due to terrible past experience with their customer service, the network (at least the mast I'm picking up) is a massive improvement over what I'm getting with Three in the evening for speed consistenty and latency. Could also be due to the Chateau 5G with its 4x4 MIMO. Big Grin

Unlike Three, just about every speed test service and download test were giving equivalent results, i.e. TestMy and Ookla gave roughly the same test results test after test.  This basically means there's no issues with packet loss or suspect fiddling of the TCP congestion protocol as there is with Three:

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Just about every test on M-Lab showed a 0.00% Retransmission, i.e. no packet loss:

As for ping times, try getting an average ping in the 20s on Three between 9pm and 10pm: Big Grin

From testing the SIM between my phone and the router, I get the impression that Eir does not provide CA on bands 1 or 3 weaker than a certain RSRP.  While the router had no problem aggregating band 3 with an RSRP of -103dBm, it wouldn't aggregate band 1 which was about -108dBm in the cell monitor.  With the SIM in my phone, it would not aggregate with band 3 or 1 at all no matter where I stood, likely due to the readings below a certain threshold.

These were the CA readings of the GoMo SIM in the router:

I intend later picking up an Eir prepay SIM to try some further testing with, such as see whether it connects on band 3 or 1 within my phone using a satellite dish.  Either way, from my limited testing so far, it's nearly like a 100/20 fibre connection, especially with hitting the 90s at 9pm on a Friday when I'm lucky to get 30Mbps with the Three network.  With no latency spikes, I probably could do away with using a separate router for my VoIP line.  Eir recently added 5G on Prepay, so would let me test for 5G coverage also.

If you no longer have the Eir bill pay SIM, it's worth another try with a prepay Eir SIM.  I certainly did not expect this much of a change compared to my last tests earlier in the year.  The only minor drawback is that the peak speed I got was about 120Mbps early in the morning, but even still, I can't get this sort of speed on TestMy (and most downloads) without using a VPN on Three here:

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I'll go get it and see how it goes, was something similar I noticed when testing eir in the past, it hands off to different primary bands the further/closer you get to the cell.  B28 for distance and B1 when you're closer... hopefully they did upgrade the local cell for me too, it seemed to go downhill bigtime in the recent months.

Some speedtests I did over 5 Ghz WiFi on my phone last night around 2AM, I wish I had 4 proper antennas to get the maximum potential of 4X4 MIMO / 4 CA. 

This was using B3 + B1 + B1 , finally aggregating the correct cells this time. Wonder what I'd get if it were possible to add N3 to this, I suspect B1 or B3 can't be used as primary bands as the disconnection issue wont happen with them, sadly looks like only B20 or B28 will be able to be used as a primary for N3.

I'm going to try go outside when it's dry to see if the signal is any better connecting to the LPDA's without the extension SMA cable, im praying it's just the extension cable that has water ingress.

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Eir testing as follows. The same apparent setup. I'm not sure if they deploy band 3 and 1 at the island site, but I don't pick anything else up here other than  B20 and B28.
They seemed to improve the speeds again or maybe it's because I have 4 antennas now instead of 2 for 4x4 MIMO

Using my current 2100 Mhz 3G antenna config on primary ANT 3 port I was getting: 36 Mbps Download  , 1 Mbps upload     [ANT1 : 2100 Antenna , ANT2: LPDA  ANT3: 2100 antenna ANT4 LPDA]

Is there any specific combination of where to plug each antenna that would be optimal? Having the LPDA's in the ANT 2 and 3 slot has the signal reading extremely degraded/ performance too (on B3 + B1), the RSRP and SINR improves to a normal-ish value whenever data is transmitted /downloading, (2100 mhz antennas are on the ANT 1 and 4 ports on that config) definitely degraded performance wise though. While idle with B1 primary band , the RSRP is like -115 and negative SINR but is  improved to -102 with 16-22 SINR when downloading. I believe thats because of the outer 3G antennas kicking in for 4x4 whenever the download starts which improves the reading.

So I usually just use the initial setup mentioned above, locked to exclusively B1 and B3. Because with this config the signal is constantly -102 RSRP and 18+ SINR. Unlike the other setup above.

I then put the LPDAs on the ANT 2 and ANT 3 ports and everything improved for the eir testing because it's using only the two lower frequency bands.

B20 seemed to be the best primary band. 

B28 on its own:  DL: 45 Mbps , UP: 23 Mbps
B20 + B28: DL: 105 Mbps , UP: 24 Mbps

Another thing to note is the fact I did get the same speed results on any speedtest server , so the same findings you had with , unlike three.

I dont understand why the LPDA's work fine on lower frequencies from what I can tell, only the higher frequencies are severely degraded? I swapped the LPDA to the primary port, ANT3 and I get normal RSRP readings for B20 + B28. Speed seems good too. I dont understand why its so heavily degraded at B3 and above?

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I'll be going over to my partners parents house to try improve their current internet setup , so I will also log my findings there to see if there's anything out of the ordinary (Three 5G sim and Eir 5G sim) Big Grin
For Eir B20+B28, the optimal would be the LPDAs on the two antenna ports that handle the <1GHz bands.

Whenever you get a chance, I suggest taking down the two LPDAs to examine them closely in case there is some debris, insects, spider webs, etc. trapped between the elements, particularly near and inside the cap at the outer edge. The narrower elements handle the higher bands from 1800MHz up.

Although Eir would not connect on band 1 or 3, you can try checking what the RSRP readings are on these bands. To do this, select just bands 1 and 3, then run the cell monitor in the command line:
/interface lte cell-monitor lte1

Eir's EARFCNs are 1875 for B3 and 225 for B1.

If the readings are -108dBm or worse, you can try attaching the 2100MHz 3G antennas to your antenna ports #2 and #3 temporarily. Although this will weaken the B20 and B28 bands, it may improve the B3 or B1 readings enough for it to aggregate, assuming Eir requires a minimum RSRP for CA which I suspect.
Which ports are used for each band on the current config I have I wonder? The port that seems to affect everything is the ANT3 one. Not sure about the rest Big Grin

Had a look in cell monitor, only Three's B3 and B1 EARFCN's appeared in the list while having the eir sim in the router. I'm assuming eir haven't deployed B1 or B3 on the Island site but I'll be able to confirm this whenever I go down to burntonport again.

I'm going to try plug the router in at the base of it's actual cable to see if it's the extension that has the issue or not.
Upon examining the SMA extension cable, it was slightly loose. I cleaned the radex tape off and re connected the cables, signal improved dramatically. But my theory I had a year ago about something being wrong with one of the LPDA's is more evident now that I got to test them individually. One of them returned to operating like it should whereas the other is still having issues. I don't see anything particularly on the antennas themselves or anything, only a bit of wear from being outside, though they'll be difficult to take down but maybe I only need to replace one of them.

One of the LPDA's on their own -  I marked it with tape so I know which one it is, but it just completely wasn't working on B3 or B1 at all. Seemed to work on the B20 and B28 bands but noticeably weaker signal than the other. I had it plugged in on its own.  It even started aggregating 20+28 like the eir sim as if B3/B1 didn't exist. 

Signal with the marked problematic LPDA readings
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The other LPDA performs really well like before. I unplugged the "bad" antenna and did a speed test with with this CA combo , note the carrier aggregation works properly again too , the broken lpda screws up the CA for some reason?
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It was getting -99 RSRP on B1 along with a high SINR , so reconnecting the extension worked for at least one of the antennas, I put some radex tape back on it and sealed it so it stays water proof. It must be aggregating the upload too because I never saw 30 Mbps like this. I also don't get this kind of speed in the day time normally. This was using just 3 antennas. Looking forward to trying this late at night.

I wonder is it just a faulty antenna all along, and the rough winds eventually loosened the other good and working antenna, since it has returned to normal function after a cleaning and reconnect?

I Also wonder which antenna port has what function , in terms of what bands they support Big Grin

Considering ordering 1 LPDA tonight to replace the faulty one, do you think that's the best thing to do?

I managed to catch this screenshot too before it disconnected Cry  would love to see what it's capable of , three updating me today saying their linking with their tech team about it, hopefully they do something to fix it...  Highest SINR I've ever seen on my device (look at the n3 reading)

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(14/12/2021, 11:56 AM)Eagle Wrote: Which ports are used for each band on the current config I have I wonder? The port that seems to affect everything is the ANT3 one. Not sure about the rest Big Grin
With mine, it seems to intermittently switch between ports 2+3 and 1+4 for band 1 and 3. As I still have the tube shape high band antennas in the attic, I can see which pair it's using as the antennas in the attic are roughly 15dB weaker than what the outdoor antennas pick up.

(14/12/2021, 11:56 AM)Eagle Wrote: Had a look in cell monitor, only Three's B3 and B1 EARFCN's appeared in the list while having the eir sim in the router. I'm assuming eir haven't deployed B1 or B3 on the Island site but I'll be able to confirm this whenever I go down to burntonport again.[/url]
That looks likely Eir is not using B1 or B3. If you didn't see any other B1 or B3 cells appear apart from Three's, this also means Vodafone is not using B1 or B3 there either.

(14/12/2021, 03:18 PM)Eagle Wrote: The other LPDA performs really well like before. I unplugged the "bad" antenna and did a speed test with with this CA combo , note the carrier aggregation works properly again too , the broken lpda screws up the CA for some reason?

With just bands 1 and 3 selected, you can try the cell lock command again with just these three PCI 1 cells to see if it will lock to these three with the second LPDA attached:

/interface lte at-chat lte1 input="at+qnwlock=\"common/4g\",3,1700,1,525,1,100,1"

Hopefully Three will be able to solve the issue with it not holding on to the n3 band, particularly with being able to reproduce this issue with your phone.

If I get a chance tomorrow, I'll try my Chateau 5G with Vodafone 5G in Ballybofey. From monitoring my phone between home and Letterkenny, not once did my phone get 5G coverage along the route other than showing the outlined 5G icon. This means Vodafone is likely using band 1 or 3 for 5G coverage in those areas. Peter C recently posted a video on YouTube demonstrating Vodafone using band n1 in Dublin.

Unlike Three, Vodafone is using DSS, which is where the mast dynamically shares the bandwidth between 4G and 5G with the same block of spectrum. This means if Vodafone is doing this in Ballybofey, it would let me see if there is much difference between the speed with using 4G or 5G with the same band. I reckon Eir is doing this with the mast I pick up as the cell monitor shows the same PCI# 320 for both band 3 and n3, both with similar RSRP readings.
Did that but no signal at all on the weak LPDA, I'll order a new one tonight and see how much of a difference two fully operational ones should make. Vodafone haven't done anything exciting here at all.

Did the B28 licence expire? I cannot pick up the B28 cell or the N3 one now , it appears they are both down unless, they are both the same piece of equipment and are both down, B1 appear to still be there on both 10 and 15 mhz blocks.

Everything is back, but the issue still remains sadly.

Ordered an additional LPDA 92, quite expensive but hopefully that'll be it then, it's basically not functioning at all so I'm missing out on the 4X4 MIMO potential and it should be fairly future proof for new frequencies as well. Just really praying they fix the N3 issue so I can aggregate with it.

What is the difference between N3 and the old 15mhz B3 4G cell? And What is the future plans for Three with 4G and 5G frequencies do you think? They should start upgrading everything Q1 next year right?
The only main difference between the old 4G band 3 and it now serving 5G is that phones now show a 5G icon.  There is only a minor improvement in speed due to slightly better encoding efficiency.  This is why I don't get why Three is refarming that second band 3 other than to cash in those who pay for the 5G add-on to regain access.  Peter C said much the same with Vodafone's band 1, saying it serves much the same speed as before, but showing a 5G icon.

From my testing today in Ballybofey, I can confirm Vodafone is indeed using 5G on band 1 there:


Unfortunately, the signal was very weak in the place I was testing.  I had to use cell lock to band 20 cell ID 406 to get connected as otherwise it would use the stronger band 20 cell ID 16 that does not carry the 5G signalling.

The maximum speed I got with positioning the router in various places was the test result below:


I got much the same with it connected in 4G aggregating bands 1 (in 4G mode) and 3.

Cell monitor, showing the signal readings:

Even with the quite poor readings it still performed quite well Big Grin  , 1ms latency , never saw it that low before. N3 doesn't seem to show up in the cell monitor no matter what I do.

I wonder why vodafone or eir don't use band 3 at the island site, I wonder will they in the future. I assume N1 will just be something similar to B1 on 4G then too. 

Hopefully three and other operators do more upgrades soon there's more speed/ more to test. Something like standalone 5G. I don't understand why they dont use it.
Even with just this one LPDA working again... I was getting 250-340 mbps down and 35-40 Upload , highest upload I ever seen with it, interested to see what 4 antennas and N3 connected will do.

Managed to catch another screenshot, RSRP massively fluctuating, saw it at -102 before... also the carrier aggregation is messed up with the 5G ticked.

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Upon mounting the new one the same issue arises, extremely frustrated at this point , it's reading -20 RSRQ constantly and the RSRP is fluctuating a lot. I'm wondering is it the extension cable that isn't working now or what Big Grin

So I leave the new antenna unplugged completely, using just the one LPDA that works , I plug it in one of the 5m extension cables = -99 RSRP and 20+ SINR, thats fine

I unplug it from that, and plug it into the second 5m extension cable, this is what it reads
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So these are the readings from the best working antenna, it would appear the second extension cable is broken or damaged? and note, I do plug the antenna into the same ANT3 primary port when doing this test.

Strange issue with the new antenna also 

On the the good extension cable, the new antennas RSRP fluctuates a lot , it gets around -100 RSRP to -107 on B3  and the RSRQ stays constantly -18 to -20 but reading 'fair' 

On B1 it gets -103 to -115 fluctuations on the RSRP as well as the RSRQ remaining on -20 . 

20 down 20 up on B3 , and 45 down 18 up on B1   using the new antenna on the good extension on its own

This is what the new antenna gets on the good port, RSRP improves while downloading, I assume the mast is only transmitting on these polarisations when data is being used ? It would appear the horizontal 3G antenna is also weak on its own , so the the strongest signals are one vertical one 45 degrees? and the other two (horizontal and 45 degree) are only used during downloads maybe? speculating Big Grin 

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Is it something to do with that particular polarisation or am I mounting it wrong maybe? I have both LPDA's  with the cable side up at +- 45 degrees using the bracket. , (cable runs along channel on bottom of the antenna) and theres an empty channel on the underside running along it.

Ordered new 5m extension cables hoping they come tmoro, I think they will.
Pity the extension cable was also damaged. As you mentioned your Chateau LTE12 stopped working after a thunder storm, it's possible the surge damaged the insulation in the cable from the power surge. Another possibility is that water may have got inside the cable of faulty antenna and wicked its way along the core in turn damaging the extension lead.

I have a similar experience with the polarisation signal variation, likely the mast using one 45 polarisation for the uplink and control signalling and the other just for the downlink. With the local mast in Kilcar that I use on the other router for VoIP, the vertical is also stronger than the horizontal polarity. As this is with the XPOL-2 panel, I tried rotating the antenna 90 degrees and sure enough the signal strengths swapped between the leads.
Yeah the stupid feckin extension cable was a  problem all along I think. Been out messing about with it all day Big Grin  

I ordered a 10m SMA extension cable by accident thinking it increased the length of the LPDA to 10 instead of 7 , but ended up being an extension cable  Dodgy  anyway it will actually come in handy I think for my next idea...

So I tested the good antenna over the new 10m extension cable and pulled the other faulty one apart from the other working cable, and put it aside (they were stuck together).  I got about -103 RSRP on the good LPDA on the longer 10m extension so it only loses about 3-4 dB. And I was getting -116 RSRP on the other faulty cable which is 5m. So that's one problem figured out. Ordered a 5M extension to reduce the distance abit + less signal loss , so it should be here tomorrow. 

While I was outside I said to myself I may as well try the router outside without the extension cables, quite a massive improvement in terms of download and upload. Signal improved quite a lot as well. 

So the new LPDA on its own would still fluctuate RSRP alot while having it locked to B3 , -95 RSRP to -100 ish  while keeping a flat -20 RSRQ the whole time which is weird ... the stranger thing is it was able to pull 70/20 mbps on its own with that RSRQ. I think the thing you said there about the control signalling is probably the case then. Vertical and one 45 degrees seems to be the best? 

The other working one would get slightly slower download but faster upload despite having a consistently stronger signal according to readings which was weird. 

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That was with the antennas plugged in outside without the extension , I had -93 RSRP on B3 , I'm currently getting -96 to -99 ish with the 10m extension now. Previously with the faulty cable it was much worse. I'm also getting a consistently higher upload now aswell. I'd never get this speed at this time usually, and the upload is even higher , never saw 40 before Big Grin

I'm wondering now since the other LPDA may be fine, should I just mount it horizontally and replace the 3G antenna with it, if it works fine? I could use the current 10m extension for that one whenever the 5M comes tomorrow.

Also do you think I should mount the new antenna where the other LPDA is getting a stronger signal , like swap them around on the 45 degree bracket? I will go to burtonport this weekend to test N3 closest to the mast as I can and to see the max potential of the mast too.
That's a great upload speed, over double what I get. Cool

Ideally, the antennas and cable lengths should be matched per MIMO pair, i.e. if you use a 5m extension on port #0, then port #3 should also have the same 5m extension length. Otherwise as the modem receives one signal, the cross-polarised signal is out of sync due to the mismatched cable lengths. This is similar with the antennas, e.g. if one antenna is longer than the other, the signals may not arrive in sync.

The second MIMO pair does not need to have the same antennas as the first, so the two 3G antennas are fine. However, if you replace one of the 3G antennas with the spare LPDA, it could cause an issue.

It's certainly worth trying some speed tests again closer to the mast. If you still can connect on band n78 there, this would let you see what the backhaul capacity is like, especially since the 100MHz wide bandwidth is capable of in excess of 1Gbps with a good signal. E.g. if let's say you only get 400Mbps near the mast, this is more likely the available backhaul capacity rather than saturating the available bandwidth reaching your phone.
This might be the issue with the massive speed difference then , when I plug the router in outside and both LPDA's are 7m , I was getting alot better signal along with much faster download and upload. I wonder is the issue down to different lengths of cable then. I also just realised theres a chance the 3G antennas are not even the same length as the connectors are different at the SMA connector  , would be typical Big Grin 

I should be able to put two LPDA's together with 5m extension tomorrow so that should be ok , it's just a matter of figuring out if the 3G antennas are longer.

Do you reckon flipping the the antennas on the 45 degree bracket would be a better idea? the new one is a little less corroded than the one thats up atm Tongue

I think this is also 10m then

To clarify , ANT2 and ANT3 are a MIMO pair or is it a different combination? Big Grin I was putting the LPDA's in those two. , another thing I'd like to add, I remember you saying comreg only list the N78 sites as NR, I found a N3 only site that was listed on comreg as NR so they list both now, or are starting to Tongue

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