Confused Bird Forum

Hi Sean,

First time poster but long time student. Thanks for all the fantastic info.

I have 2 seperate antennas in mind for LTE on my rural farm in Kildare.  I know a friend who had the log antenna for a while and it worked well. The POE MikroTik with RouterOS intrigued me and I would dearly love to hear your thoughts on it. 

[font="Amazon Ember", Arial, sans-serif]LTE High Performance – LTE LOG Antenna (800MHz, 1800, 2600) 20dB[/font]


https://www.senetic.ie/product-rblhgr-r1...SeEALw_wcB

Before you decide on that MikroTik LHG dish router, I recommend finding out what LTE bands are available in your area as the mobile operators mainly use 800MHz in rural areas. That MikroTik LHG router works very well on bands 1 (2100MHz) and 3 (1800MHz) as it concentrates the signal much like a satellite dish. Band 1 is a temporary reprovisioning of the 3G band 1 for 4G and is set to expire on the 7th October unless ComReg grants an extension.

While the MikroTik LHG can also connect on band 20 (800MHz), it performs no better than what a phone will pick up in that spot as the dish shape is ineffective on those lower frequencies . Any directional panel or LOG antenna will outperform it on the 800MHz band.

A good alternative that runs RouterOS would be the MikroTik Chateau LTE12 and either a pair of LOG antennas or a directional panel antenna. Unlike the MikroTik LHG, the Chateau is 4G+ capable and can aggregate bands for faster throughput. This is the router I'm currently using and a pair of Iskra P-58 LOG antennae aimed at a distant 4G+ Three site.

Many thanks, that's very interesting. Would the Amazon Germany log antennas work ok with the chateau or would you recommend the iskra?

---

And one more question, is the tplink archer mr200 ac750 router better or worse than the chateau if I had no preference?

Hi Sean

I've purchased the Mikro Tik Chateau router this morning and the Log antennas you recommended. I will post the updates when I try them out. Excellent info as usual. Very interested in this carrier aggregation.

Regards

(Edit: I wrote this post before seeing your second reply)

The Wittenberg LAT 58 LOG Antennae on Amazon Germany are the equivalent and should work well also, however, they are more expensive. If you only get band 20 in your area, the LAT22 pair are very sensitive on band 20. LOG antennae need to be spaced around 60-100cm apart, so you will either need a tall pole or a cross-pipe clamp and steel pipe to mount them side-by-side. These are not included with the antennae.

Personally I would avoid the TP-Link 4G routers when using LOGs. From what I'm aware of, TP-Link routers do not provide RSRP or SINR read-outs, which makes it tricky to properly aim the LOGs. For example, you could swing the antennae across a 30 degree arc without affecting the signal strength reading, yet have a massive difference in performance due to fluctuations in the signal to interference and noise ratio (missing SINR reading). Both the MR200 and AC750 are not 4G+ capable either.

If the Chateau LTE12 is too expensive, I suggest going for either the Huawei B535 or B818 instead. The B535 which costs just a little more than those TP-Links is 4G+ capable (2 carriers) and provides RSRP and SINR readouts (including via mobile App).

(29/09/2020, 11:45 AM)Seán Wrote: [ -> ](Edit: I wrote this post before seeing your second reply)

The Wittenberg LAT 58 LOG Antennae on Amazon Germany are the equivalent and should work well also, however, they are more expensive.  If you only get band 20 in your area, the LAT22 pair are very sensitive on band 20.  LOG antennae need to be spaced around 60-100cm apart, so you will either need a tall pole or a cross-pipe clamp and steel pipe to mount them side-by-side.  These are not included with the antennae.

Personally I would avoid the TP-Link 4G routers when using LOGs.  From what I'm aware of, TP-Link routers do not provide RSRP or SINR read-outs, which makes it tricky to properly aim the LOGs. For example, you could swing the antennae across a 30 degree arc without affecting the signal strength reading, yet have a massive difference in performance due to fluctuations in the signal to interference and noise ratio (missing SINR reading). Both the MR200 and AC750 are not 4G+ capable either. 

If the Chateau LTE12 is too expensive, I suggest going for either the Huawei B535 or B818 instead.  The B535 which costs just a little more than those TP-Links is 4G+ capable (2 carriers) and provides RSRP and SINR readouts (including via mobile App).

Hi Sean, 

So the chateau is a serious piece of kit.  Fired it up today with interesting results.

I have a previous recommended log antenna at gable end, 10m coax x 2 to tplink archer mr200 on underside of attic door. I've been achieving 50mbps on the tplink since march or April, good result.  Pic of antenna below.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/y22fymaVuxDdU4wd6
 
I'm pointed at 60° to Meteor LTE KE_4679 in Moyvalley Kildare. Chateau was unable to connect to KE_4679 using log antenna. It kept connecting on OY_4215 Edenderry. As soon as I reconnected tplink I was again achieving 50mbps on KE_4679. I confirmed this on the EIR MME.

I disconnected the log antenna and inserted the 2 paddle antennas on the chateau and went to 2 upstairs Windows either side of log antenna and had no problem connecting to KE_4679.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/mZxEbZSDoJz9ddZB6

I could see the CA on band3 and band20, link above.
I achieved 50mbps and it did hit mid 60s at times.  Any idea why the log antenna connected to chateau won't connect to 4679? It is 6.7km away. Paddle antennas on chateau have no issue to 4679.

The ISKRA P58 LOG is in the post.

Interesting point, before CA kicked in on chateau I was only getting approx 9 - 11 Mbps. I think the tplink mr200 behaves the same way. Takes a few seconds then the speeds ramp up significantly. 

Any thoughts on the above?

Thanks again.

I wonder if the OY_4215 cell is a band 1 or 3 cell.  This router prioritises bands 1 and 3 over band 20 above a certain signal strength, I think -108dBm, regardless of how strong band 20 is.

Try a speed test with the OY_4215 on the LOGs to see how it performs.  I wouldn't worry about a weaker signal strength, as once it's -100dBm or less negative, a positive SINR is more important.

If you would like to force the router on a specific cell, first type the following command to see what network cells are available:
/interface lte cell-monitor 0

Pick an EARFCN and CellID, preferrably with least RSRQ for a given EARFCN, then type the following command to force the Chateau to use that cell:
/interface lte at-chat lte1 input="at+qnwlock=\"common/4g\",1,earfcn,cell"

For example, to force it on to that cell in your screenshot, type the following command:
/interface lte at-chat lte1 input="at+qnwlock=\"common/4g\",1,6200,124"

To remove the cell lock, you can reboot the router or type the following command:
/interface lte at-chat lte1 input="at+qnwlock=\"common/4g\",0"

As the Iskra antennae are bare, I suggest placing a plastic spacer such as an old plastic pen cut in two in between the bars before installing them.  This will prevent rain droplets attenuating the signal if they wick between the bars:
https://confusedbird.com/thread-27.html

Hi Sean

Thanks for the info,  very much appreciated.  OY_4215 is on B28 and I get approx 13mb download.

As can be seen below,  I dont see 6200 at all on the monitor.  Strange for the LOG antennae as the 2 small paddle ear antennas pick it up no problem almost alongside the LOG antenna?  I know KE_4679 was giving me band 3 and band 20 with CA.

B28@10Mhz earfcn: 9260 phy-cellid: 360 - (This is 0Y_4215)


[admin@MikroTik] >> /interface/lte/cell-monitor 0                                           
Columns: PHY-CELLID, BAND, EARFCN, RSRP, RSRQ, RSSI, AGE
  PHY  BAN  EARF  RSRP    RSRQ  RSSI    AGE
    0  B3  1875                          4s
  63  B28  9260  -125dBm  -20dB  -93dBm  7s
  114  B28  9260  -120dBm  -20dB  -87dBm  1s
  124  B28  9260  -121dBm  -20dB  -87dBm  1s
  209  B3  1875  -133dBm  -19dB  -104dBm  1s
  244  B3  1875  -133dBm  -20dB  -104dBm  1s
  284  B28  9260  -121dBm  -20dB  -87dBm  1s
  292  B28  9260  -119dBm  -20dB  -87dBm  1s
  344  B3  1875  -133dBm  -20dB  -104dBm  1s
  348  B3  1875  -133dBm  -20dB  -105dBm  1s
  350  B3  1875  -131dBm  -19dB  -105dBm  1s
  360  B28  9260  -110dBm  -11dB  -82dBm  1s
  368  B28  9260  -120dBm  -20dB  -87dBm  1s
  373  B28  9260  -120dBm  -20dB  -87dBm  10s
  381  B3  1875  -129dBm  -18dB  -104dBm  1s
  502  B28  9260  -120dBm  -20dB  -87dBm  1s
  503  B28  9260  -121dBm  -20dB  -89dBm  4s


[admin@MikroTik] >> /interface/lte/at-chat Eir input=" at+qnwlock=\" common/4g\" ,1,6200,124"
  output: ERROR

(After the at-chat above,  my lte1 is caller Eir,  so i changed that only and I get output error)

Any other tips or tricks are always welcome and I really do enjoy trying to get the most out of the kit.

I'll be getting my hands on a Huawei H312 5G external modem next week,  likely Monday...... or maybe Friday this week.  I do detect 2 bars of 5G at the rear of property on the same tower,  KE_4679,  so I will be very interested to see if it can beat the 4G+ CA.  Keep you posted on that development.  Love to hear your comments on the LOG above to 6200,  thanks again Sean

---

Hi Sean

Success to KE_4679.  I had external antenna set to none ..... you can say RTFM if you like  

Primary Band B3@15Mhz earfcn: 1875 phy-cellid: 344
CA Band B20@10Mhz earfcn: 6200 phy-cellid: 124

48 DL 21 UL

I have a 3 SIM ordered,  on the 48 Network to give it a try.

Time to play now....

That's no problem. Band 28 is a temporary licenced band ComReg made available for the pandemic. I think this router only connects to band 20 or 28, whichever is stronger, so if it's using band 28, it will not show 20 in the cell-monitor and vice versa. If you would like to prevent it using a band, you can tick all the bands but the unwanted ones, e.g. 1, 3 and 20 if you wish to force the router to use these only.

That "output: ERROR" is due to the way you wrote the command. There should not be any slashes between "interface", "lte" and "at-chat"

That's great picking up 5G. I have not used any 5G phone or router yet, mainly due to the high cost at the moment.

For the 48 SIM, I suggest getting it set up first with a phone as it needs to be activated. The network does not enable 4G for a few hours after the SIM is activate (based on my experience), so I would wait an hour or two, reboot the phone to see if it connects in 4G before trying it in the router.

Thanks again Sean

interface lte at-chat Eir input="at+qnwlock=\"common/4g\",1,6200,124" 
output: OK

I'll upload some info with the Huawei312 when I get it and do some comparisons.  Eir are doing an FWA trial (fixed wireless access) to see how it goes.  

It will be interesting to compare the 5G & 4G+ from KE_4679.  I'm not sure there will be a difference off the same site.  Am I correct in assuming the reason I get good speeds from 4679 is because of the CA between B3 & B20 on the same tower.

That is correct, when your router connects to both bands for carrier aggregation, it uses both bands simultaneously for downloading. It only uses the primary band for uploading, so if shows band 3 for the primary band and 20 for the secondary, it will use both for downloading and just band 3 for uploading.

You can test them individually by just selecting the individual band # in the list, e.g. try band 3 only, run a speed test and repeat for band 20. If you get similar speed on a single band (e.g. ~30Mbps on band 20 only, ~60Mbps on band 3 only and also ~60Mbps with both bands), then this usually indicates congestion further upstream.

Hopefully the FWA 5G trial goes well. One thing I've just learned is that Huawei's new 5G CPE Pro 2 router does not have any antenna sockets, so hopefully they provide the first model which still has the sockets as 3.6GHz signals don't penetrate walls very well.

Got a Chateau today Sean based on your recommendation. With a Poynting XPOL2 on my old Huawei 315 was getting 30 Mbps, got 125 with Chateau. Fantastic performance! Bit more complicated that the Huawei though..
Any help greatly appreciated, maybe a simple guide on the basics, see which bands, carrier aggregation, etc
Thanks

From what I recall, to do a factory reset, you need to hold the power button in for 5 seconds during boot until the LED starts flashing.  I can't recall whether this needs to be held in before applying power or just after plugging it in.  It takes several minutes to perform the reset, so I suggest waiting 5 minutes before trying to access its user interface.  It's also the same with a firmware update. 

If you don't see an LED flash with either method, then try another 12V DC power supply with a positive Tip, i.e. shows a symbol that looks like -C+ 

If you are using its web interface (192.168.88.1), it has an annoying quirk where the quick configuration intermittently appears with Bridge mode ticked.  This means if I make any change on the quick configuration screen without noticing this, it puts the router into bridge mode, requiring a factory reset to get access to its user interface again.  However, as you mention there are no lights lit, it looks more like a bricked configuration. 

I suggest using Winbox to configure it, which you can download here: https://mikrotik.com/download

Go into Interface -> LTE and in here you can pick the LTE bands to try.  If you select one band, it will show the signal readings of it, e.g. RSRP, RSRQ and SINR.  Three currently operates 4G on bands 1, 3, 20 and 28 (1 and 28 are temporary until April 2021).  If you select multiple bands, it will attempt to aggregate 2 or 3 of them, e.g. if the router picks up a signal on bands 1, 3 and 20 and you choose these three, it will attempt to aggregate these three, such as the following example:



See this post above to view the neighbour cells and how to cell lock to a specific cell ID.

it is working OK now again Sean,
at the default setting, am I correct in thinking it will use the best bands automatically, is there any reason you would just select some,  other than for testing?
I am installing it for friend are they reliable and trouble-free?
in the tenda mesh system there is an automatic schedule reboot is there any such thing in the Chateau?
in May when the temporary Bands 1 and 28 will finish will that make a difference to speed and capacity or will the same capacity be available on the other bands?
is it better to hide or disable the router Wi-Fi if using a mesh system?
thanks for all your help

If the speeds are fine during the evening, you can leave the band selection with the default setting as it will automatically aggregate the bands.  If however the mast is very congested, try selecting them one by one, run speed tests and pick the bands that give the quickest.  As the Chateau aggregates 3 bands, this is less of a concern than with a single band router such as the LHG Cat 4 dish router where there's a greater chance of it using a congested band.

So far mine appears to be more stable than the Huawei B525 and performs a lot better than it also, mainly due to its triple carrier aggregation capability.  So far I haven't heard of any issues with them breaking down, but then again, MikroTik's equipment is intended for commercial use where such equipment needs to be reliable. 

You can schedule a reboot, however, this is not something I've done with mine.  You can try by going into System -> Scheduler, Add an item, enter a time like 3:00:00 and interval 24:00:00 (every 24 hours).  In the On Event field, put in "/system reboot".  You can also create this schedule from the terminal:
https://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=19985#p95263

Unfortunately once Three switch off bands 1 and 28, the speed will very likely decrease.  As ComReg intends auctioning off additional spectrum then, it's quite possible Three will have additional bands available, such as band 7.  Band 28 is likely to be come a 5G band and band 1 will be restored back to 3G only access like before March. 

With a mesh, I suggest turning them the Wi-Fi bands, especially the 2.4GHz band.  If you need to leave them on for another purpose, make sure the Wi-Fi channels are well spaced apart from the mesh system's Wi-Fi channels.

Hi Sean, my Chateau worked fine with a 3 phone sim, but not with a GoMo or Vodafone bb sim. I found your page with all the APN settings but where do you change them in the Chateau?
Thanks

Interface > LTE > LTE apns > add new

Gomo APN is data.myeirmobile.ie

Anyone know how far an LTE tower could be before it is no longer feasible to point at it.
I have a tower 14.25 kilometres with clear line of sight.  The RSRP isn't great, -104 ,
Any tricks up your sleeve Sean?
Thanks

-104dB is a fair signal and should perform well if the SINR is 10dB or higher. At this level, the main thing it affects is the upload speed, so you may not get much higher than about 10-20Mbps upload depending on which band this is.

If the antenna elevation angle is adjustable, I suggest tilting the antenna up a few degrees as this can improve it a few dB over that distance. The maximum range before the tower refuses a connection varies depending on what the mobile operator allows, but generally it's well over 20km for masts in rural areas.

Thanks as always Sean, didn't know about tilt..., That's interesting. Think I'll stick with 44679 in moyvalley. I've been adjusting and trying different settings, looking at impact on dbi. Loving this. Thanks again

---

Just for clarity for others, these were the readings I was querying for a tower 14.25km in the distance with clear line of site.

RSSI -62 dBm
RSRP -102 dBm
SINR 8 db
RSRQ -14 db

(27/10/2020, 11:28 PM)Comsman Wrote: [ -> ]Interface > LTE > LTE apns > add new

Gomo APN is data.myeirmobile.ie

Anyone know how far an LTE tower could be before it is no longer feasible to point at it.
I have a tower 14.25 kilometres with clear line of sight.  The RSRP isn't great, -104 ,
Any tricks up your sleeve Sean?
Thanks

Thanks for that, working now, I'm just figuring out the Chateau. Can't follow the instructions